In 30 seconds
- Special meeting called for one reason: decide on replacement Street and Sanitation trucks before the 30-day rental period with Big Truck Rental (BTR) of Memphis ends Monday, August 4.
- Staff proposed buying two used side-loader trucks: one in Covington, Tennessee for $30,000 (mechanic-verified, city would pick it up, no delivery charge) and one former Oklahoma City fleet truck sold through a Michigan dealer, listed in the ordinance at $36,000 with delivery; neither truck carries a warranty.
- Funding plan: move money from the Street Fund (over $200,000 on hand) into the General Fund, earmarked for the trucks, to be balanced later against salary reimbursements owed to the General Fund; council was also asked to waive competitive bidding since no comparable pricing existed.
- Council members, especially Councilwoman Maxine Miller, pushed back on the trucks' age (10-13 years, 100,000+ miles), the lack of warranty, and a 2020 truck purchase that turned out badly, and argued for more time to review before committing.
- No vote was taken on buying either truck. The meeting ended with a motion to adjourn; the mayor and chief of staff said they would reconvene, with a scrap-salvage quote expected that same evening.
- Staff said the department has completed its routes on schedule every week so far, but warned that leaving the meeting with no truck decided risks the kind of service disruption seen before the BTR rentals began.
Recap
Call to Order and Purpose
City Clerk Sandi Ramsey called the roll; Councilwoman Maxine Miller, Councilman Joe St. Columbia, Councilman Adrian Messina and Councilman Dr. Kyle Miller were present, while Councilwoman Monica Davis and Councilman Don Etherly were absent . Mayor Joseph Whitfield said the special call meeting was to make emergency decisions on sanitation trucks , after the city had spent roughly 30 days operating on rented trucks from Big Truck Rental (BTR) of Memphis .
Two Trucks on the Table
Chief of Staff Kevin Martin-Arnold presented two used side-loader trucks, aiming to replace two vehicles while staying near the roughly $103,000 the city got for a salvaged truck the previous year . One truck, in Covington, Tennessee, is priced at $30,000; a mechanic has confirmed it runs, and the city would pick it up itself with no delivery charge . The other is a former Oklahoma City sanitation fleet truck sold through a Michigan-based dealer ; with delivery, the ordinance lists its cost at $36,000. Staff had a video showing this truck runs but not yet one showing its loading arm in operation, and neither truck comes with a warranty .
How the City Would Pay
Staff asked the council to approve moving money from the Street Fund, which holds over $200,000, into the General Fund, earmarked specifically to buy the trucks, because the General Fund could not currently cover the purchase during a three-pay-period month . The arrangement would later be balanced against salary costs the General Fund covers for the Street Department, which one council member called "robbing Peter to pay Paul" . Staff also asked the council to waive competitive bidding, since no comparable competitive pricing had been found .
Age, Warranty, and a Past 'Lemon' Purchase
Councilwoman Maxine Miller said she was uncomfortable approving the purchase on the spot, noting both trucks are 10 to 13 years old with over 100,000 miles and no warranty . She referenced a prior council purchase, around 2020, of trucks that later proved unreliable, and Martin-Arnold acknowledged those trucks carried similar risk at the time but were approved anyway . Miller initially said she had not received advance notice by email, then withdrew the objection after being shown she had responded to it eight days earlier .
Cost Offset From Scrapped Equipment
Staff said a salvage vendor from West Memphis inspected old, inoperable vehicles and equipment at the city shop that day and was expected to provide a scrap-value quote by that evening . Staff pointed to a prior sale of scrapped landfill equipment that brought in about $50,000, used to help fund a replacement landfill truck, as a hoped-for model for offsetting the sanitation truck cost .
Debate Over Waiting Until Tuesday
One council member argued for settling on at least one truck immediately, with a plan to keep looking for a second, warning that leaving with no truck risks the service disruption seen before the BTR rentals started . Councilwoman Miller disagreed, saying the purchase involves the public's money and that a few more days to review the deal, including the pending scrap quote, was the prudent approach . Staff noted the department has finished its routes on schedule every week so far .
No Vote -- Meeting Adjourned
The council did not vote to approve either truck purchase. Mayor Whitfield said the decision could wait until the next regular meeting on Tuesday but stressed staff needed to make progress soon, noting a town hall was scheduled that same evening . Councilwoman Miller then moved to adjourn ; before closing, Mayor Whitfield noted the truck information had been shared with the council eight days in advance, longer than the usual notice for council items, and thanked staff for the work done . The meeting adjourned with no truck purchase approved, ahead of the rental trucks' return deadline of Monday, August 4 .
The documents
Everything the council had in front of it, summarized. Page stamps open that page in the document desk.
Draft Ordinance — Don Baskin Truck Sales Purchase
Draft ordinance to waive competitive bidding under Ark. Code Ann. 14-58-303 for a compactor truck purchase for the Sanitation Department . States bidding is not feasible due to time constraints and authorizes the Mayor to contract with Don Baskin Truck Sales, LLC of Covington, TN, with total cost not to exceed $30,000.00 . Includes standard severability, repealer, and emergency-enactment clauses, with unsigned signature lines for Mayor Joseph Whitfield and City Clerk Sandi Ramsey .
| Cost cap | $30,000.00 | |
| Vendor | Don Baskin Truck Sales, LLC |
Draft Ordinance — Global Logistics Solutions Purchase
Second draft ordinance with the same bid-waiver language, naming Global Logistics Solutions, LLC of South Bend, IN as the contract vendor for a compactor truck purchase . Printed cost cap is $32,500.00, with a handwritten correction changing the figure to $36,000.00 . Same closing clauses and unsigned signature lines for Mayor Whitfield and Clerk Ramsey .
| Printed cost cap | $32,500.00 | |
| Handwritten corrected cost cap | $36,000.00 | |
| Vendor | Global Logistics Solutions, LLC |
Email — Garbage Truck Quotes (Kevin Martin-Arnold to Council)
Forwarded email from Kevin Martin-Arnold, Chief of Staff/Interim Street & Sanitation Director, sent July 22, 2026 to City Council members and Mayor Whitfield, presenting three replacement garbage truck options within a previously approved $100,000 purchase window . Lists a 2015 Mack 600 in Covington, TN (100k miles, $30,000), a 2013 Kenworth T4 in Niles, MI (100k miles, $30,000 plus $2,500 delivery), and a larger 2013 Kenworth T4 also in Niles, MI (115k miles, $38,000 plus $2,500 delivery) . Recommends buying the Mack 600 and the smaller Kenworth T4 for best value and notes the rental trucks need to be returned by August 6 .
| Approved purchase window | $100,000 | |
| 2015 Mack 600, Covington TN | $30,000, 100k miles | |
| 2013 Kenworth T4, Niles MI (smaller) | $30,000 + $2,500 delivery, 100k miles | |
| 2013 Kenworth T4, Niles MI (larger) | $38,000 + $2,500 delivery, 115k miles | |
| Rental return deadline | 8/6/2026 |
Vehicle Listing — 2013 Kenworth T4 Series (Niles, MI)
Commercial Truck Trader printout for a used 2013 Kenworth T4 Series side-loader garbage truck, listed by Global Logistics Solutions of Niles, MI at $29,995, with 109,523 miles . Specs list a Cummins ISL diesel engine, Allison automatic transmission, 62,000 GVWR, and a LaBrie side-loader body with joystick controls, VIN 1NKBL50X2DJ366387 . Listing notes the truck is sold as-is and shows other trucks available from the same dealer .
| Listing price | $29,995 | |
| Mileage | 109,523 miles | |
| VIN | 1NKBL50X2DJ366387 | |
| GVWR | 62,000 |
Vehicle Listing — 2015 Mack 600 (Covington, TN)
Commercial Truck Trader printout for a used 2015 Mack 600 garbage truck, listed by Don Baskin Truck Sales, LLC of Covington, TN at $30,000, with 109,756 miles . Specs list a Mack MP7 diesel engine (370 horsepower), Allison transmission, McNeilus 31-yard side-loader body, and VIN 1M2AU02C2FM009277 . Listing description calls the truck clean and in good running condition, and shows other trucks available from the same dealer .
| Listing price | $30,000 | |
| Mileage | 109,756 miles | |
| VIN | 1M2AU02C2FM009277 | |
| Horsepower | 370 |
Transcript
Auto-generated from the meeting video's captions and lightly cleaned for readability — wording is kept as spoken, not corrected, except that caption-garbled names of city officials are normalized against the roster. Speaker names follow the attribution work in our governance record; a ° marks a name our reviewers have not yet verified. Every timestamp plays the city's video from that moment. Watch the full meeting ↗
0:00
All present and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. United States.
0:31
Roll call Roll call (attendance) — present: Maxine Miller, Dr. Kyle Miller, Adrian Messina, Joe St. Columbia. Absent: Don Etherly, Monica Davis.
0:48
Unidentified Thank you. So, that we have a quorum, we can get into today's business. The nature of this special call meeting is to discuss uh emergencies uh decisions as it relates to sanitation trucks. As many as all of you know and as many of our folks at home know, we've been operating for the last 30 days, roughly the last 30 days with uh rented trucks from Big Truck Rent out of Memphis. And as that rental um lifespan is coming to a close, the chief of staff and I have been at work trying to figure out the best next steps so that we can make sure we're not disrupting services. What you have in front of you right now are three different documents. Two of those are ordinances uh that the chief of staff and interim director for street sanitation will uh describe to you uh the trucks in just a moment. And then the third document you have on your desk is uh it's an email. his email correspondence from when these trucks were sent out as well as some of the ve the vehicle information about these trucks, including mileage, price, um, make, and model. So, I'm going to turn it over to the chief of staff to just explain um the work that was done to isolate these two trucks in particular and why they could be um our next best uh step. And I'll give him the floor to go ahead and explain that. All right. Um, loaders. Um, side loaders being the most efficient type of uh garbage trucks because, you know, you don't have to get out the truck. You just pull up, pick the trash can up, and dump it. Um, we wanted to stay within reasonable spending. Um my understanding is that we salvaged a vehicle uh truck for around about $103,000 last year. Um I know we got put in a situation where we had to spend about 30 something,000 um with the rentals. And so my brain just said let's just try to keep it under 70 knowing that we needed two um knowing that we needed two more trucks once those went back. That way we will still have two trucks for residential. Well, two trucks for the main residential and then we will have our walk-behind that was purchased last year that's uh doing the courtesy/handicap pickups and then we still have our overhead that's going to be doing commercial and then we have a knuckle boom truck that'll be doing debris and brush. Um and so this is just to make sure that we're able to maintain the normalcy that we've been able to show when the guys got good equipment we can get the job done. And so just trying to make sure that we're not going back into the really emergency state that we were in before we were able to get the um rentals. Um and so um looking at some nearby areas, it was really hard to find um any working trucks that were within reasonable price. Um some of the ones that were a little more newer or even a little more um refurbished were closer to 78,000 for one truck. And so we were able to find one that was in Covington for $30,000. Uh we have proof of life in operation. Um and so that's one that we would like to move forward on. Uh the others came from a deeper search that um Mr. Strider done had done where he was able to find a couple that were out of Michigan that were once a part of the Oklahoma the city of Oklahoma City's um sanitation fleet. And so um we got some good reports on it. Um, we even got a video that it operates well that it runs. Um, the technician wasn't available for us to get video for it to operate yet, but he's supposed to be sending that before they send the trucks. Um, that one is around 30,000. Um, the price of delivery at first a couple months ago is about 2500. They use a third party vendor whenever they um whenever they're selling the trucks to deliver them. And so, it's not really their price that they get to set. And so a couple of months ago when we first initially got the quote it was around 2500 but once it was reposted I'm guessing the lowest price they had was around this $6,500 price which is why you'll see on the ordinance is written under there 36,000 as opposed to the 32,500 that was initially there just so that's explained. Um the other part of that is also um out of cost savings um we did meet today with um a salvage vendor out of West Memphis and so he came down and looked at a lot of the old inoperable vehicles and um equipment that we have on the Sebastian um shop site and he's going to give us a quote by this evening in regards to how much he's going to be able to offer us to get that removed which is a win-win for us. we get a cleaner um shop over there and then we get some money back into our pockets that'll hopefully, you know, help counter some of the money we're going to have to spend on this. Which also brings me to another thing that we'll have to do. Um I spoke with Derek Turner, um city's treasurer. He uh because um and I mean we can speak to this. I mean, it's public knowledge at this point. This is a three-month pay period for us. And so, you know, I mean, a three pay period month for us. And so, you know, those are the harder ones on us bill-wise. And so we really out of the general fund right now can't afford to even purchase these trucks. But um given that the street fund is healthier and they we can't necessarily make sanitation purchases through the street fund um the general fund does pay the salaries of the street fund and at the end of the year it's always reimbursed to even it out on the books. Um and so what Derek Turner said is all right um is that we just do it a little earlier just for the amount that we'll need to cover these trucks. So, we'll move that money from the street fund to the general fund, have it earmarked specifically for the purchase of these vehicles so that uh we're able to move forward and get those vehicles purchased so that we're not getting super behind. Um, one concern that I feel like is going to come up is that with the trucks from Michigan, depending on how long it takes them to give us that proof and for us to sign off and go ahead and uh get those purchased, that truck is probably not going to be here by Monday. Might not even be here by Tuesday. But if we are able to move forward, especially on getting the one from Memphis, then we can at least rearrange the schedule to where I can have some guys come in a little later to where we're able to use the walk-behind and the um the that one side loader that we would have to be able to keep that uh to keep the routes moving. And it might be a little hiccup, but we'll try to make sure that we're not inconveniencing anybody too much with that. Um but that's really the biggest spill of it is that we'll need um permission from you all to um reallocate funds from the street department to the general fund. Um as well as moving forward with waving a competitive bidding on these because there wasn't any competitive pricing in terms of finding the affordable trucks. So these are the only ones that we really able to bring to the table. and let me know if you got any questions because I know I kind of talk fast
7:34
Unidentified and I just I want to add so that there's a fullness of a decision. Um the chief of staff and I did also sit with one of the representatives from a third party vendor yesterday, Republic Services, Mr. David Green has visited us twice now and we were able to successfully after that first visit share the entirety of our uh clients accounts. So, residential, uh, commercial, they see what we charge for each account, and they did an an in-house assessment essentially because we never did an official RFP. We never sent out the bid to say that we want to welcome um um we want to welcome suitors to take on our trash just yet. But uh in his words as of yesterday based on what we currently have based on how much based on where we operate he's pretty confident that Republic feels they would be a ordering trucks that is a process I want to say it was at least a few a few months before they will be able to even get trucks because they have to order those and um they and this is from the second biggest sanitation company in the country right behind waste management. So there's a there's that weight is to be I guess standard. It's expected a standard if we were to ever look at going to that going that route. So I did want to give you that update. That's as far as we've gotten with those three um companies that we've talked about, Waste Management, Republic, and GFL.
9:01
Unidentified Yeah. And the other part about that is that so um I do want to make sure it's understood that part of what he was saying that wouldn't change which would be kind of beneficial for um the citizens is that our rates are already at a good enough point to where we wouldn't have to increase them if we were to go to a contract yet. And so like because every year you got to account that there's going to probably be like almost a 5% increase on what we're paying. And so it would be up to that would be one that would end up falling up on us. Well, y'all um in terms of whether or not y'all would increase the rates to keep up with the amount of increase that's going to naturally happen if you contract out to a third party vendor.
9:38
Unidentified Yeah.
9:39
Unidentified Well, if we could, you know, whenever that comes to the agenda, we could get the everything, you know, far enough ahead of time so we had time to read through everything and make a logical decision
9:50
Unidentified and part of part of the Yeah. And there there they wouldn't give us no company I think would give us an actual we will probably get a range of yeah but not an actual amount because then that inconveniences them should we go forward with an RFP. Um so but I I can definitely
10:11
Unidentified ask that we get a [clears throat] range provided specifically. Is it at the range that we have to do a um RFP?
10:24
Unidentified Yeah, probably.
10:26
Unidentified Yeah. More than that.
10:27
Unidentified It's over 50,000.
10:28
Unidentified More than that. For sure. For sure.
10:29
Unidentified It's over 50,000.
10:31
Unidentified Yeah.
10:32
Unidentified Yeah. And then it would just be up to us bidding it out and then seeing who has the best rates and things like that.
10:38
Unidentified Yeah. [snorts]
10:40
Unidentified Okay. When's the last day of our uh rental?
10:45
Unidentified The trucks go back Monday.
10:46
Unidentified Monday.
10:48
Unidentified August 4th.
10:50
Unidentified Okay. So, I'm I'm going to be very transparent. I um I'm a little uncomfortable with getting this right now at the table and not having a whole lot of time. I'll be frank. The one that's in Memphis, I would consider the ones that are in wherever Michigan. I'm I'm not even going to consider that because I feel like we it do they come with warranties?
11:18
Unidentified No.
11:21
Unidentified Okay. So, um yeah,
11:28
Unidentified look like to me we're buying somebody else's junk. I mean, let's be real.
11:37
Unidentified I I'm I'm hesitant. I'm not even gonna lie to you. Now, I will say I do appreciate the fact that you got on this, okay? And you understand that we got to have something really soon. I am concerned about and I know we looked at, you know, life expectancy between 250 300,000 miles, whatever. And we are on both of these trucks a little over 100,000. You know, I'm I'm a little conservative about that. I I have some concerns about that. I really do. Um and I know that, you know, we've got videos and they're going to show that they work. Um I don't think that's the same thing as actually going, you know, or having them to bring them here. And I don't know that I think Michigan is a really good starting place for us anyway. I think the one in Memphis is good because we can send the guys up there. they can go and look at them and they can give us a good honest assessment. The ones in Michigan, I me personally, I wouldn't do that in my own household. You know, just look up something and, you know, take their word for it that it's a good buy, but the one in Memphis, you know, maybe we can talk about that one. I don't I don't know about everybody else says.
12:56
Unidentified Yeah, M. Martin, you I think I discussed with you. You said that for the one in Memphis, you all had a mechanic look at that one, didn't you?
13:04
Chief of Staff Kevin Martin-Arnold Yes. The mechanic has verified that it operates and runs.
13:07
Unidentified Okay. And then the the one in Michigan, you guys went through the Carfax, ran the VIN number.
13:14
Unidentified Yeah, we just they they just asked him all the questions you would ask a dealer in regards to garbage trucks and then um again, he provided that it um runs and that again his technician was out, so he wasn't able to get us the video yet for us to see that it also operates in terms of the arm movement and everything. Yeah.
13:31
Unidentified Now, with the VIN number, it just it's just basically going to tell you and and ask if it was reported, you know, where there was an accident.
13:38
Unidentified And again, and I just emphasize the fact that this was a part of the city of Oklahoma City, which means that more than not, it was a part of a larger fleet. Didn't have as much wear and tear as you would in the smaller one where you you're like ours where you don't have multiple to be able to sit them out, maintenance them the way that you could. And so, yeah.
13:54
Unidentified Well, like Little Rock, they just they just rotate theirs out every three years anyway. It doesn't matter. It can be the best thing smoking. Every three years they rotate out the hill
14:03
Unidentified and they actually still have their old ones.
14:06
Unidentified Yeah. So we
14:06
Unidentified we tried to get a
14:08
Unidentified Yeah. I called Mayor Frank Scott um reached out to him maybe two and a half weeks ago initially and then the Arkansas Black Mayor Association also kind of jumped in to help us out. was able to talk to Mayor Frank Scott yesterday finally and we saw as you just mentioned that their fleet they they're um just approved the new fleet and was wondering whether they're going to do with their old trucks um have that conversation and at one point I think there was an openness to consider um potentially donating some of the trucks and what was said yesterday was that you want you want to have backup should your you want to have the full life cycle use the full life cycle of the trucks that you have and um also have backups when they when you do have your new fleet. So that was that was that correspondence from from Little Rock yesterday.
14:58
Unidentified One from Coington. There's no charge in delivery. Correct.
15:02
Unidentified No, we will pick it up.
15:03
Unidentified That's good. That save $6,500 right there.
15:06
Unidentified I doubt it would be 65 from Memphis here.
15:08
Unidentified I doubt it would be 6,500 from Memphis to here, but that's Yeah. Um, I I do get what you're saying in regards to the age of them. I mean, I can tell you that even just based on us with the rentals that you you risk you risk the issue of the side loader anyway because it's just such a technical vehicle. It has a lot of moving parts, a lot of hydraulics and everything. And so that's the one that's going to give you the most technical issues anyway. The walk-behind is a lot more reliable in terms of not breaking down, but it's just slow. And so either way, there's going to be some issues with those arms that's just going to come up anyway. Yeah, cuz we've had a lot of problems with the side those side arms. And so that carries me back to the age of these like you know that's like
15:57
Unidentified but for it to be for it to be 10 11 years old it only has 105,000 miles.
16:01
Unidentified Yeah.
16:02
Unidentified Which means that it wasn't used a lot in it in its time. I've had my my truck outside for 6 years and I already have 117,000. And so,
16:10
Unidentified but I mean to your point earlier though, I mean, if you're just making quick routes like this, but you're using that arm a whole lot, it's the arm you're more worried about than it is [music] the mileage even. You know what I'm saying? Because, you know, they they said that they last between 250 300,000 miles. So, we know we got mileage left, but do we have arm operational left? I mean, that's kind of
16:37
Unidentified I think when it comes down to even repair costs and everything, it's easier to repair the mechanics of the sidearm than it is to get a new engine.
16:44
Unidentified And so, like we could we fixed the arms and stuff on trucks before that's been messed up. They go out when the engine go out. That's been our biggest issue. That's been the biggest issue that's been described to me out there.
17:00
Unidentified Okay.
17:01
Unidentified Where you going to get the money? where you going to get the money to buy this truck?
17:06
Unidentified So, the street fund has over $200,000 in it. Um, based on the amount of spending we've done this year, we know we won't spend most of the money that's in there. Um, we really only spend it on I'm saying you could probably back me up on this. I think like gas and supplies and um
17:22
Unidentified asphalt
17:23
Unidentified asphalt that's really the mo the majority of it. And so, just based on this year spending alone, we know that we won't be over the threshold by the end of the year. So, and the general fund pays the salaries of the street department. And so, we're going to reimburse just the amount that it costs us to be able to operate the um I mean to be able to pay for the trucks into the general fund so that we can use that money to be able to purchase the trucks.
17:48
Unidentified You're robbing Peter to pay Paul.
17:50
Unidentified Um it's not really robbing. They really paying us money that they just owe us anyway because we shouldn't be paying the salaries for the street department technically. I I guess I mean I don't think it's a should or shouldn't to it, but the street fund doesn't pay the salaries. We pay the salaries. So it's like money that we should have we should be getting anyway.
18:07
Unidentified And that process happens is going to happen at the end of the year because the general fund has been paying the salary. So it's it's not something um they're doing in this instance. It is going to have to happen at the end end of the year to balance the books. Can we do what we need to do by buying one truck, the one from Tennessee?
18:35
Unidentified We won't be able to do it efficiently.
18:36
Unidentified You won't do one.
18:37
Unidentified We won't be able to do it efficiently. And then I think you will risk us going over budget and overtime and the amount of time that it will probably take to get people to be able to use one that one sidearm and that walk behind.
18:48
Unidentified So if you bought the other truck at 30,000, I mean really what's your other option? rent a truck which is gonna be 30,000.
18:56
Unidentified No, one truck will probably be like $10,000 a month.
19:00
Unidentified I think they were like 10,900 10,900 like 9,000 or something that equal the 31,000 that we end up paying.
19:08
Unidentified Yeah. If we did that with one truck, I I I wasn't wanting to be eager with suggesting that, but if we did that for one truck to compensate for the truck out of Michigan that we didn't buy, that gives us time to find another truck that's close and nearby that we can go inspect in person. That
19:28
Unidentified Oh, God.
19:29
Unidentified That's an option. That is an option.
19:31
Unidentified Has the city attorney looked over the contracts?
19:35
Unidentified Yeah, he he's the he drafted the these ordinances. He drafted the ordinances.
19:40
Unidentified No, no, but he hasn't looked at the purchasing agreement or anything like the docu signs. No.
19:46
Unidentified Um the and it was only just an invoice given to us from um the other one. So it didn't come with like any necessarily
19:52
Unidentified um drawn out paperwork for that one.
19:55
Unidentified I would personally be more comfortable uh because under the waiting of the competitive bidding, we you know, we're saying that in addition the mayor and city attorney are authorized to finalize all negotiations. I would feel more comfortable, you know, having him at the table with all of this, you know, because I know 30,000 relatively speaking is not a lot of money, but it's a lot of money, you know, and the fact that there's no warranty and you know, all I just I would feel more comfortable knowing that we had dot all eyes and crossed our tees. I mean, can we not come back on Tuesday because we have a scheduled meeting, don't we? We do have a scheduled meeting on Tuesday. Um, but leaving and just just stating the fact leaving this table today without a decision on these trucks puts us in a situation where I mean we'll we'll see a little bit of the disruption in services that we saw leading up to the rentals. Um, we do have our overhead back from Memphis that was um and what's correct? What's the number for that truck? Is that uh
21:00
Unidentified 35?
21:01
Unidentified 35. So 35 is now back in circulation and back.
21:05
Unidentified But it's commercial truck.
21:08
Unidentified Yeah. So
21:09
Unidentified truck like it's a part of that.
21:11
Unidentified Yeah. So going going back to the rental conversation potentially that lessens what we would probably have to rent maybe for a week, two weeks. But um
21:21
Unidentified the biggest problem with residential is that sidearm that goes out all the time. Is that the big problem?
21:30
Unidentified Oh yeah. those trucks. Um, I think the last group of trucks that we bought were that were sidearms were bought in 2020 and they were 2008 models.
21:39
Unidentified Is that the one you have to have put fluid in to make sure it goes like it's supposed to?
21:45
Unidentified Yeah. You
21:46
Unidentified Is that the one?
21:47
Unidentified Yep.
21:48
Unidentified So, evidently the fluid probably has never been checked or put in that sidearm like it should be.
21:56
Unidentified Can't confirm or deny.
21:58
Unidentified Huh. Can't really confirm or deny that.
22:03
Unidentified We just we just need to check it when they go out or something. Somehow we need to check and make sure that thing got fluid in it cuz that's what goes out all the time on these trucks.
22:12
Unidentified Well, I can at least attest to it with the rentals that we've gotten. Every morning they do a maintenance check on it before they get on the roads.
22:21
Unidentified They do.
22:22
Unidentified And so they add fluids to them and everything and get them make sure they're washed off and everything. And yeah.
22:34
Unidentified Okay. So, if I'm if I'm calculating correct, so if we rent a truck, it's about 2,500 a week.
22:44
Unidentified Correct.
22:48
Unidentified And we know in all practical purposes, it's probably going to be at least two weeks. I mean,
22:57
Unidentified potentially. Yeah, I think. Yeah, potentially.
23:00
Unidentified Or or longer cuz we don't know if we're going to find another truck. So then, but let's say let's just say we we said 2 weeks. Okay. So now you're at 5,000. The truck is 30. You basically paid for a third of the truck. I mean, I don't know. This is what happened. I mean, um,
23:28
Unidentified can we make a decision on at least one truck?
23:31
Unidentified I mean, that's that's we can make a decision on one, make a decision on two, we can make a decision on none of them. I do believe it's just worth stating that um leaving the table today with no trucks and I don't want us to be impulsive. That's why we're being just showing everything that we've been able to successfully find and um and do. But leaving the table with no trucks today puts us back in the situ even leaving with one I think is good. It helps lessen the burden of uh what the department will have to do that there will be as the interim director said some schedule shifts that we'll have to explain to people on the front end. So people will expect some irregularities around trash. But um
24:16
Unidentified right now are we at par picking up trash right now or are we behind?
24:21
Unidentified We're calling
24:22
Unidentified we're we're on point. Um they usually finish the routes within about they usually finish the routes in about 4 hours uh these days. Um and again we are on summer hours too. And so please understand that if we do stretch them to where I'm having people come in later, they're also working in hotter conditions. Um, and that's just also kind of the reason we went to summer hours.
24:45
Unidentified But right now, we are we at par of picking up trash?
24:49
Unidentified Yes, sir. We we have had route completion successful every week.
24:52
Unidentified Okay, that's good. The only thing is I think if we had been a little bit more proactive, you know, when we first started renting and we were doing that that last round of agreement, I feel like we should have been looking at options. Then we knew we had a mom. And so it's, you know, the pressure of trying to make this decision now really didn't have to happen this way.
25:30
Unidentified Like we could have opened this up
25:34
Unidentified two weeks ago, three weeks ago.
25:36
Unidentified It the search began immediately. Um the search
25:39
Unidentified the search happened before the rentals even were going on. Again, some of these trucks were from months ago that we had tried to find. Again, we've only been looking for affordable trucks that we know we could purchase.
25:51
Unidentified It's hard to find a truck that's going to fall within 30 to 35,000 and be functional. At one point, we had about three trucks, including a small handicap truck that would have been good for the smaller streets that would have equaled up to about 95,000 total. But again, like two of two of those trucks would have been from Michigan and we would have been in this same situation where y'all would have sent us back to the drawing board. And again, we're not able to find any local trucks that are within that like a a decent spending range considering that there's no money in the sanitation fund.
26:22
Unidentified And that's okay. I mean, if it just happened and you just got these and this was a couple of days ago and we were looking all along, that's fine. But we still need a little bit more time to assess whether or not this is a good buy. You know what I'm saying?
26:39
Unidentified And what's a but what's a good amount of time? Cuz I mean, not to I'm not trying to throw anything out, but I'm saying like
26:44
Unidentified Tuesday,
26:44
Unidentified I'm saying eight eight days ago is when I initially sent out this email. And so we've had time since then to and I asked I said anything you want to know, let me know and I can get you that information between then and whenever we met. It's
26:58
Unidentified 8 days. We haven't gotten anything in your email.
27:04
Unidentified Check everything.
27:05
Unidentified This is literally our first thing looking at this.
27:07
Unidentified This was sent out on July 22nd at 10:43 a.m.
27:10
Unidentified Okay. But I don't have it in my email.
27:13
Unidentified You responded to the email and said that
27:16
Unidentified all of these.
27:16
Unidentified Yes, ma'am. You you responded to this email and said that you didn't feel good about purchasing the trucks given the price. We had follow-up conversations about that, but again, these were still the options that I had to bring to the table.
27:28
Unidentified Okay. So, I will respectfully take that back then. I was wrong.
27:37
Unidentified I just think I
27:39
Unidentified understand Mr. Martin. Um, the appraisal for the I'm about to say scrap metal. That's not what it is. For the scrap parts.
27:50
Unidentified We won't have it until this evening. He he was only able to come out today. Um, I was trying to get him out here yesterday, but
27:55
Unidentified Okay. his schedule.
27:57
Unidentified Okay. So would y'all be because Adrian uh suggested so possibly us approving the Memphis truck. Let's see what the appraisal is and if the appraisal for the for the parts, you know, is good. It might be a wash anyway. You know, we that would that could supplement the other truck
28:20
Unidentified potentially. And
28:21
Unidentified I see it be I see it being low risk. It's $30,000. The risk is, you know, is it going to run? I mean, but it's just like if you buy any used car, you know,
28:31
Unidentified you got a good deal, but it could be a lemon,
28:34
Unidentified you know.
28:35
Unidentified And if it's a lemon, are we going to tell the people, "Hey, we got another lemon." I mean, we already did this
28:43
Unidentified a while back. Am I not right? U Mr. Joe, did we not buy two or three trucks that we found out later were just lemons and they weren't? I mean, I don't know that I think that that's a good deal and that's the reason why, you know, I apologize to you.
29:00
Unidentified I did say
29:01
Unidentified my thing is you risked the same thing though in those same three trucks that you asked um that you guys approved in 2020. There was a list of things showing that the person who was over street sanitation at the time had hopped in them, drove them, everything y'all. And y'all still approved it. Mhm.
29:17
Unidentified And so I mean, we're saying that we go test drive something and it comes here and it still doesn't break down, y'all. These are 2013, 2015. These aren't supposed to be permanent solutions. They're going they're hopefully going to get going to last us through to where we're able to hopefully get healthier as a city and then we're able to finance or do whatever we need to do to get newer trucks. But this is just
29:36
Unidentified this is just to get us to the point to where we're not spending 20. We're not spending as much as you could be spending to get a good used truck or a truck in general just on rentals. And so that that's the only that's the only thing to it.
29:50
Unidentified Why could we not take the sum of these three trucks and go and try and find one for that amount if we would be willing to spend all that money anyway and buy something with a little bit better track record.
30:08
Unidentified You know what I'm saying? I just want to point out that we only plan on purchasing two. So, I don't want to add up this to 98,000.
30:12
Unidentified If you just got one really good truck,
30:15
Unidentified if we got one really good truck, then we will have one really long route every day as opposed to being able to do it efficiently enough to where you're not putting too many hours on the trucks in a week. Most trucks, you shouldn't be putting more than 50 hours a week on there. And so, the fact you have two, you split the amount of time that it would take. If you had if you only had one, you're risking doing about 40 to 50 hours a week. That's going to be a lot of more mileage, a lot more wear and tear on one truck as opposed to having two trucks that will be able to do half the job efficiently.
30:48
Unidentified And I just want to keep it I mean financially we're really trying to stay in that window of what that salvage amount was at the beginning or in 2025 which was 103,000. Um not wanting to go outside of that to if if we don't have to not want to go outside of that. So,
31:06
Unidentified on these trucks from Michigan, when do we have to let them know what what we're going to do?
31:11
Unidentified Um, I mean, he didn't give us a window in terms of when he needed a response, but I also don't know in terms of his the delivery company what time they I mean, like when they need to know if he end up having to post it again and if that's going to change the cost of delivery. I'm not really aware on that end.
31:27
Unidentified Yeah. Well, if we get that one truck from Tennessee, that's onethird of the problem if there is problems that we have to worry about instead of having three trucks that might give us a problem. But that one truck is better than no trucks, right? That's what I would do.
31:52
Unidentified I got buy one truck and I say, let's ride it for a while and see what we've got.
31:58
Unidentified That's that's y'all's decision to make. the the uh interimm director, he did mention that the um the quote from what would be sold off at the yard will be ready roughly or not roughly but this evening. I'm I'm wanting to be hopeful with that because what we saw last year with the landfill was that they were able to um make about $50,000 with what they sold and they were able to get a new truck for the um for the landfill to to to go from point to point. So there there's a lot on that yard and I'm sure that somebody is going to be able to salvage a lot of what they find and based on that number as Dr. Miller mentioned it. The hope is that we get it as close to a wash as possible. Um, I per I I do believe that we should leave here today with at least one truck. And if if that's us being comfortable with the Memphis truck, I do believe we should uh move forward with that because otherwise our option is to either consider a contractor for indefinite amount of time till Tuesday until we make a decision and and then sometime thereafter or potentially continue with a rental agreement again. neither of which is going to produce a longer solution than purchasing the truck.
33:20
Unidentified Who Who's the maintenance guy down here for us uh that would check the the truck from Memphis when it comes in
33:29
Unidentified that goes over the truck and says, "Hey, this is a good deal or whatever." Is it
33:33
Unidentified It would be the mechanic at the the street and sanitation department.
33:36
Unidentified Yeah. Who's the mechanic?
33:37
Unidentified Um well, uh the mayor doesn't like for us to discuss personnel. The mayor doesn't like for us to discuss personnel by name at the council table. I mean, that would kind of be
33:45
Unidentified I still hadn't heard heard a word you said.
33:48
Unidentified The mayor doesn't like for us to discuss personnel by name at the table. So, I'm not just going to throw it out there unless that's something that he's all right with, but their position is mechanic at the street and sanitation department. And the foreman also works as a um he also basically works as the mechanic out there as well because he has a lot of experience with um diesel mechanics too. Now, is that the mechanic that came and talked to us last week or week before? Was that the same? Is that who we're talking about?
34:18
Unidentified That's the mechanic. Yes.
34:25
Unidentified All I can say.
34:31
Unidentified Can we get When did you When are you going to have a quote for the scrap?
34:36
Unidentified This this evening. drinking before
34:38
Unidentified uh
34:39
Unidentified chief of staff Mr. Mar Arnold
34:42
Unidentified is the will the quote be ready for the night?
34:44
Unidentified Yeah, he's here this evening, Mr. Griffin.
34:47
Unidentified Okay. So, can you bring that Tuesday and we vote then? I mean I don't know if anybody else but I mean we could I mean
34:56
Unidentified Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday. If we could have a little bit more time to look this over and um we would have scrap. We know how much we had coming from that.
35:08
Unidentified I'm not for I'm not for putting off. We we we've been putting off with our people for too long. They we need to sanitation and garbage needs to be the priority. I respect you your opinion. But if if if there's ever a time we were going to make a gamble on an expense, I think I think sanitation is the place where we need to do it. Um you know, so we do that. We kick the can down the road. We'll get here Tuesday and we talk about it some more and we'll walk out again with no trucks. And that's usually just what happens.
35:45
Unidentified Well, if we left here on one, we have one truck at least today. [snorts]
35:50
Unidentified I think we need at least settle on on one truck with a contingency for the second one. That's my opinion.
35:57
Unidentified Well, I respectfully disagree with you. I feel like we are talking about the people's money and I think if you walk into a situation and you don't have all of the information, there's no warranty and so forth and so on, I think that it's prudent to take the time and I don't see where dealing with this on Tuesday is going to make or break the bank.
36:26
Unidentified Okay,
36:27
Unidentified that's just my personal opinion. I totally agree.
36:32
Unidentified Okay. So, y'all y'all saying so y'all saying that if the if the
36:35
Unidentified if the Now, mind you, we've got we've gone a month with caught up garbage. So, I'm I'm making sure y'all I'm hearing you correctly. What you're saying is that if we put off to Tuesday and our garbage gets behind, it's okay.
36:51
Unidentified I I would like to add I would like to add a second, mayor. Hold on a second. You you're saying that it's okay for us to get behind on garbage.
37:01
Unidentified I'm saying that if that is the result of us going from the inception when we knew we had 30 days,
37:09
Unidentified but they said they work they said they've been working on trying to get a quote.
37:14
Unidentified Okay.
37:14
Unidentified For the p for the past 30 days.
37:16
Unidentified Yeah. Okay. Well,
37:17
Unidentified I mean it's hard to get a quote. Have you ever done it before?
37:20
Unidentified Okay. So I'm saying
37:21
Unidentified it's not easy
37:22
Unidentified that I feel
37:23
Unidentified half the time when you call these people
37:24
Unidentified when you are spending people's money
37:26
Unidentified I understand that
37:27
Unidentified I think you need to be conservative
37:29
Unidentified understand but half the time when you call these people most of most of the time these people they're not sitting around in their offices that's the first thing then you when you finally get a return call it's it's later in the day or whenever which could be two or three weeks. So, it does take take time. Um,
37:48
Unidentified and if we get two months down the line and they break down, are we all willing to say that we're going to take responsibility for the fact that they broke down and people are angry anyway?
38:00
Unidentified Absolutely. because we cuz we did the best we could under the situation and the information we had and our and our goal was to try to serve the people in in comparison to what happens if two months down the road they're still running
38:16
Unidentified I mean it's it's it's it's a it's you know
38:19
Unidentified I just have a question
38:20
Unidentified that's my view
38:22
Unidentified before Tuesday if we do take the route of not purchasing I guess two or whatever the case is what additional information or anything would you need by Tuesday that would potentially sway this or would you expect us to go and look for other cheaper vehicles because they're going to and and so like I'm like is the Memphis one the issue with it being 30,000 and 11 years old? Like are you com are y'all comfortable with that one? And if so, I'm like so do y'all want me to also try to find another one that's close that's 11 years old that's also $30,000? I'm just saying that's that's not going to be the fastest or easiest thing to do. Um, and I'm like, what? Like, is there any convincing you on these Michigan ones? Like, if you saw it hit a block doing cans, would that be the thing that convinces you that this is doable? I'm like, I just don't necessarily understand like what you all would get on Tuesday that you wouldn't have received by now.
39:21
Unidentified We would have time. I'm not going to speak for them. I would have time to look at this a little bit more in depth. You just said when you and I well I said to you then when I saw this I wasn't comfortable with this. I said that then. So it's not that my mind has changed. I'm like everybody else. I don't want our citizens to be without garbage pickup. I I'm very clear about that. What I would like to see is us purchase, if at all possible, one really good truck or if we're going to do these amounts to look for some trucks with the rear end loaders because my understanding is that they hear me out. You ask me what would I want to see that we did rear end because they are they last longer. That's just what I've heard. And so I'm telling you,
40:21
Unidentified they last longer. They take more people to operate.
40:24
Unidentified And they also just they're not efficient when it comes to picking up things in a timely manner. And again, especially if y'all talking about trying to get one in the heat or the winter. You got to worry about people being hot in the summer. You got people worry about people being freezing cold in the winter. And y'all, we paying these folks like less than $30,000. And we asking them to like break their backs. and though and those carry higher insurance because of the fact that we have people that have to um work them. So what we we're going to pay for a truck one way or another, you know, with the walkbehind, there's going to be a high insurance because of the human aspect versus a sidearm where um you're not going to you're paying maybe for some extra components, but you're saving on that. So, I mean there there's a lot of factors to consider with with just looking at a as you saying a walk behind. A lot of factors to consider.
41:18
Unidentified I guess my my only thing and I know this is just a a request. I mean, if you if you could request and ask for um you know, a warranty or whatever. I mean, I know it wouldn't be very long. might be a month warranty or a threemonth warranty or something, you know, request a request.
41:41
Unidentified I'll go back and ask. I'm sure the warranty is going to raise the price.
41:45
Unidentified Mhm. Okay.
41:46
Unidentified I mean, and even if it did raise the price a little bit more, I mean, I would feel comfortable having somewhat of a warranty, give us a little bit, you know, a little bit. I don't know if it's ever guaranteed, but I mean, just at least a little bit more time. I just don't want us to be in a situation where
42:05
Unidentified I know y'all were talking about
42:08
Unidentified gets cold and the weather's hot cold. Let me tell you, Michigan is going to be cold as hell up there. You got 13 years of that truck, those trucks and freezing ice and snow in Michigan.
42:23
Unidentified The trucks weren't from Michigan. The trucks are from Oklahoma City.
42:26
Unidentified They're all from Oklahoma City.
42:28
Unidentified Yes, sir. Well, this has miss this has
42:31
Unidentified they're located in Michigan because that's the third party dealer that um that they sell them to when they finished the fleet.
42:39
Unidentified And so um it's only been uh over there like recently um like within like the last year.
42:46
Unidentified Okay.
42:46
Unidentified And so it might have had one cold winter for sure.
42:51
Unidentified Okay. Cuz when I looked down I saw Michigan too. That's why I was like
42:54
Unidentified No, no, no. Yeah. That's why I was saying the the the two dealer verified ones came from the city of Oklahoma. The city of Oklahoma.
43:00
Unidentified I mean I mean the thing is I mean 10 10 years I mean on a truck that's that's well taken care of is not that long. It's just unfortunately and and I say this with all tag. Well, anyway, yeah, I just and I tried to say this before of our vehicles has not has not always been
43:20
Unidentified um the best that it could be, but a properly cared, you know, like 18 wheeler will last for 30, 40 years,
43:31
Unidentified you know,
43:32
Unidentified and again, like I said, the the price is heavily based on depreciation. I mean, like the vehicles depreciate pretty fast once you get them off the lot. Like I was showing y'all, like there was a 2023 um side loader with 16,000 m
43:47
Unidentified and it's already at 211,000.
43:49
Unidentified These trucks brand new are upwards of 350 to $400,000. And so again, like having a truck that's only 3 years old, but has almost
43:59
Unidentified been split in half in terms of what it cost is. You know, when we get to 11 and 12 years old, like
44:05
Unidentified that's going to be 30,000 if it's running well. Again, we were we know that they were able to find some not too good ones that combined weren't even it sounds like about
44:16
Unidentified $20,000. And so, like
44:20
Unidentified I feel like the price is reasonable given the age and the amount of mileage that's on them and they're operable.
44:29
Unidentified I think also too we have to remember too this is coming from the street fund, not from not from uh the general fund. My question is, is it going to make a big deal for five days difference between today and Tuesday? Five days can't make that big a difference. Long as we going to get one truck today.
44:48
Unidentified What's going to change in 5 days?
44:50
Unidentified Huh?
44:50
Unidentified What's going to change in 5 days?
44:52
Unidentified Maybe he can get us a little
44:53
Unidentified We don't know how much money we going to collect from the money.
44:56
Unidentified Maybe
44:57
Unidentified we don't know how much money we collect from our scrapyard, whatever you want to call it.
45:02
Unidentified Yeah. I mean, we'd have a little bit more access hopefully. Before I buy anything, I'd get the money first, then we go buy something. But you ain't got
45:15
Unidentified So, we have the money already. The money is just in the street fund.
45:19
Unidentified Yeah.
45:19
Unidentified And again, y'all like I'm not I don't I don't understand the conversation around the scrap and like let's use the scrap to purchase some vehicles that we might not trust versus street funds. Either way, it goes money that the cities that's going to be the cities or already is the cities. it would be getting spent on this. It's not like I'm I'm trying to see why that's the deal breaker as well. Like why are we waiting on a
45:41
Unidentified But didn't you mention that we would make up something on the on at the end of the year?
45:47
Unidentified Yeah, that would be the salary the amount that's in salaries and
45:50
Unidentified so and we have three pay periods in this month,
45:53
Unidentified right?
45:53
Unidentified So that's three different
45:55
Unidentified That's not coming from the street fund though. That's coming from the general fund,
45:58
Unidentified right? But the general fund is having to make the payments on this truck, right? the street fund is gonna make the payment because we're transferring it out of the street fund. If not for that,
46:08
Unidentified we're transferring it right now.
46:09
Unidentified We're we're going to transfer it when you guys if you all approve of it to be we will make the transfer from the street fund to the general fund and that money will be specifically earmarked for the purchase of these two vehicles.
46:23
Unidentified So money
46:24
Unidentified we can't do it with the sanitation funds because when the sanitation funds come in, they go right out because of the bills. Have Have you personally checked this one out in Coington?
46:33
Unidentified Yeah, not personally. I mean, it wouldn't help if I did. I'm not a diesel I don't have background in diesel mechanics, but we have someone who went out and they verified that it works and it's operable and we have video proof of the arm working.
46:48
Unidentified It's 218. I got to go. I'm going to let you know.
46:51
Unidentified Okay.
46:52
Unidentified Had to go. I had to be an appointment at 2:30.
46:55
Unidentified The I could bounce it to Tuesday, guys. Y I miss y'all's choice.
46:59
Mayor Joseph Whitfield The chief the chief of staff and I will we will we will we will we will we will will reconvene after this meeting. Uh we do have a town hall tonight so just take that in consideration. We will be entering the week next week with some interruptions and I just want the public to know that. Uh we will do our very best to make sure that that does not get out of hand and we'll reconvene on this as soon as possible because we have we have to make um some uh some progress on this. But um if with that I'll take a motion to adjourn if if we have to.
47:28
Unidentified Well, I just hope that the the community also knows that when we get things [music] and it's not in a timely fashion either. So I'd like to make a motion to adjurnn.
47:41
Mayor Joseph Whitfield Before we adjurnn, I just want to say Councilwoman Miller, we we had this information out. We we had this information. you had it longer than you would have for an actual city council meeting cuz you usually only get your city council stuff at max 5 days in advance and this was 8 days in advance.
47:58
Unidentified Okay. Okay. We're not going to argue this.
48:00
Mayor Joseph Whitfield All right. First of all, before we leave, I want to tell you I appreciate the work you did to find us this information on these trucks. I know it wouldn't. Thank you. Meeting adjourned. Have a good evening. Recording
How this page was made: built from the city's own meeting video (YouTube ↗) and its posted meeting packet (Drive folder ↗). Dollar figures are quoted from the documents; nothing here is paraphrased from memory. Corrections: cheekforhelena@gmail.com.